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Balance concerns

    • Balance concerns

      Alright boys let's do it, balance concerns with the current meta.
      1. Volcano: This is literally the most broken disgustingly overpowered ship in the game, that can solo 2 Citadels and wipe them out within 10s, with the correct configuration (which I'm not really going to post). My ~85% winrate on it speaks for itself.
      2. Avenger: 2nd most disgustingly overpowered ship in the game. Why on Earth does it have the passive abilities at tier 2?! Only tier 4 ships and premium ones have passive abilities? This seems unfair, and it's ridiculously, I mean ridiculously impossible to kill - my ~120k/d (!!!) ratio on it speaks for itself, although it's not on the leaderboards because it's stuck in qualifying for some reason, as I explained in my other topic Cursed ship not getting any rank
      3. Black Widow: before you yell at me calling me noob, let me clearly illustrate you why this ship is an example of bad game design. Overload mode, 25% added dmg on bow and fast volley guns on side, tactical defence and emp bomb. A light/medium literally CANNOT counter this setup, and I will kill them all day long, unless an healer has so quick reflexes to put an healing shield around them or something.
        Plus, the tactical defence module with its insane 75% reduction means that not even Meteor torps will take it out before it ended clipping a full health friendly. On top of that, the emp bomb makes it so you cannot even use modules to slow it or hit or whatever, to escape.
        The reason I call this bad game design is because there is no counter to it other than luck and teammates (which 9 times out of 10 won't be able to save you anyway). Another "exploit" of this is to stack a Whisperwind ult, Whisperwind bow on a Black Widow that is going to ult something (case scenario: Colossus) - I have done this and the friend of mine on Black Widow killed the Colossus with a single broadside volley, not even 2, doing like 7000+ dmg. Is this right? I want to see someone telling me it is...
      4. Typhoon: just an opinion, after the nerf I still feel like the ultimate is crazy because it's badly designed - if you think about it, it's the only ultimate that gives you only a split second to counter it, sometimes it kills you before you are even able to teleport away. Firepower is fine, I would have kept previous firepower perhaps but increased the activation time on the ultimate, rather than "press R to become machinegun god" - with my ~20% bow fire rate crew buff it is even more insane, I often kill 2 people with just the bow cannons.
      5. Luminary: it is just bad, it used to be ridiculosly broken overpowered due to the exploit, now it's just bad. An Aurora does everything the Luminary does, and much better, from a safety distance, too.
      6. Trainee, Dueler, Veteran, Gladiator: I want to know who the hell thought this line needed a nerf, I really do want to know. It desperately needed a buff and you nerfed it HARD instead. I mean honestly? Just take a Dueler and compare it to a Whirlwind, it loses at literally everything, especially the god awful engine. Why, WHY is the engine so stupidly slow?! You nerfed fire range, fair enough, then MASSIVELY boost the engine so it can move around swiftly on the battlefield? It is literally slower than a VETALA, that is an HEAVY ship. I was speechless when I saw the nerf for this line, I haven't played them since, because they were bad already, now I don't even want to go through the pain of playing them. The only one that is a bit better is Gladiator because of bow guns dealing massive fire dmg, but the rest are trash, with particular regards to the T3 variant.
      7. Overlord: 80% winrate kinda speaks for itself, this thing is the worst ship in the game as stock, because it's completely useless, then it becomes incredibly powerful when fully upgraded. Your tooltip is also gravely mistaken, and encourages poor gameplay on it - camping in the back and staying hidden is NOT the way you play Overlord, you play it in 2nd line, as super strong support for 1st line (Typhoon, Meteor, Colossus and whatnot). It is also one of the most buggy ships ever -_- Teleport can STILL make you jump inside objects (we lost a brotherhood battle today, thanks for that), sometimes it fails entirely and puts you backwards in the original starting position, finally the portal can teleport you too high in the battlefield and instantly make yourself to blow up.
      8. Having 2 Messiah ships on the same team is completely broken and gamebreaking, because Fulfilled Potential module STACKS and gives an absolutely ridiculous buff that is almost impossible to kill, Messiah will be going at 11 (!!!) vessels per second with 30% reduction on top of speed reduction - good luck killing that thing, it barely takes any dmg even from Meteor torps. Example attached.
      Thoughts? Opinions? Speak up, and keep the "OMG FLOW OP WHY YOU NO MENTION IT" comments for yourselves, please ;) (Flow is bad, btw)
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      Before the ratings got destroyed, this was a nice meme

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Ninja ().

    • To clarify once more, because perhaps it wasn't clear. I am not contesting the damage it does, I am contesting the fact that there is no counter to it, at all. Having a rock/paper/scissor situation is not healthy for the game itself.
      Before the ratings got destroyed, this was a nice meme

    • I agree with all of this. BUT^ tuphoom ult not unique because we have hearth of gold (PRESS R TO KILL), whisperwind (PRESS R TO GIVE U FRIEND POWER), Black widow ult (PRESS R TO PUNISH) and we have ults that SO USELESS - like on voidwalker (have cast time, short range, can be countered by tele or emp, low speed, and need to prolonged by cannons, and has low damage).
    • im my short experience in t4 i think typhoon its okey, it has earned the right to one shoot everything in 2 sec cause before reach enough energy everything can kill you, and you can go down in 2 sec as well. talking about black widow and all the lights in t4...isnt gladiator tier suposed to be the "counter" of all them,the ship that prevents all lights to do whatever they want ? since glad its useless ,our last chance to have a well balanced game is that you translate this post into russian and put it in the russian forum, they dont care about this forum (agree with you ineverything else).

      pd: why not dueler? everytime i play it , it can burst some lights even if they are ED (yes i know,,they can kill you too if you are in cooldown)..whirlwind cant do that....that kind of gameplay is needed in t4
    • I agree with all your assessments... Just wonder why you haven't included the Voidwalker... set up right and with a pocket messiah in tow it is "God-like"... You should know, seen you play it that way many times, as do the Bsa crew...

      Balance is a very difficult thing in a game like this, with lots of various combos of modules/guns, or even Raid partners and the game is still quite young. I'm sure they will work through them eventually, but my Question would be similar to yours....

      WHY NERF THE GLADIATOR? When there are far more broken/OP ships out there
      Avast Behind
    • SiboSnakeEyes wrote:

      I agree with all your assessments... Just wonder why you haven't included the Voidwalker... set up right and with a pocket messiah in tow it is "God-like"... You should know, seen you play it that way many times, as do the Bsa crew...


      Balance is a very difficult thing in a game like this, with lots of various combos of modules/guns, or even Raid partners and the game is still quite young. I'm sure they will work through them eventually, but my Question would be similar to yours....

      WHY NERF THE GLADIATOR? When there are far more broken/OP ships out there
      Because VW is a ship that requires a pretty good awareness to play, even after a million experience points on it I still learn something every once in a while, and it's my 2nd most played ship after Interceptor... Btw, to kill VW, kill the healer and slow it down, earlier I killed both Messiah and VW guy from BSa in a row in one occasion, and still lost the battle -_- (talk about frustrating teammates). Thing is any ship can do great with an healer, some better, some worse - VW is one of the best for sure, along with Typhoon/Skid/Overlord.
      And yeah nerfing the weakest ship was a completely stupid move, we were all shocked in rekt and laughing at the announcement when we saw it, like, wth. Now I just have fun bullying those ships by going at 90v and sniping them with whatever ship I have, freaking Lightning or Glint even - they're so slow they can't dodge torps either. #balanced


      --------(Broken forum software, unable to quote properly)
      I agree with all of this. BUT^ tuphoom ult not unique because we have hearth of gold (PRESS R TO KILL), whisperwind (PRESS R TO GIVE U FRIEND POWER), Black widow ult (PRESS R TO PUNISH) and we have ults that SO USELESS - like on voidwalker (have cast time, short range, can be countered by tele or emp, low speed, and need to prolonged by cannons, and has low damage).
      HoG ultimate punishes people that are standing still or in a giant group, it can still be countered easily, I've rarely been killed by those. Whisperwind is an healer so it's pretty legit about the ulti, considering it buffs another ship. VW ulti is weak but not so much if you use it when you can really use it at full potential.
      BW ulti is just bs, it's like "let's annoy the hell out of someone and disable him, on top of doing an insane dmg to him".
      Before the ratings got destroyed, this was a nice meme

    • Ninja wrote:

      Because VW is a ship that requires a pretty good awareness to play, even after a million experience points on it I still learn something every once in a while, and it's my 2nd most played ship after Interceptor... Btw, to kill VW, kill the healer and slow it down, earlier I killed both Messiah and VW guy from BSa in a row in one occasion, and still lost the battle -_- (talk about frustrating teammates). Thing is any ship can do great with an healer, some better, some worse - VW is one of the best for sure, I disagree here... IMO (and that's all we have... our own opinions) The VW is as OP as any of the others (If not more so)when setup right with the right support...

      I think it's "World of Tanks" all over again... Ship A (Or tank, obviously) is fairly balanced when played by the majority, but put it in the hands of one of the top players and it's God like... So hard to balance that... But, I'll go back to my original point... The Gladiator line was never in that category... Ah well, games developers... can't live with them, can't play without them... lol
      Avast Behind
    • Yeah it goes back to what I mentioned a couple of times, you balance the game up on veterans' feedback, not newbies, otherwise it goes downhill. It is up to the individual player to get rekt until he eventually figures out how to play a particular ship (I remember me while trying to learn Overlord and Skid, you should have heard me on Discord, people were calling me "swear stream", for good reason xD).
      Before the ratings got destroyed, this was a nice meme

    • @Volcano - Yes
      @Avenger - Never Played It
      @Black Widow - Can confirm, I was the buddy we tested it with. Using pretty much max buffs, Black Widow buffs and Ultimate, and Whisperwind buffs and Ultimate, a single full volley of the Black Widow pretty much 1-shot a bot Colossus.

      I don't really understand how the % buffs stack to be honest are they additive or multiplicative? Being multiplicative would be insane which is why I assume it should be additive... which my math still comes to about a 3.75x multiplier before shooting your broadsides. However... it honestly doesn't feel like this at all. Look at this GIF that Gromek shared:

      gfycat.com/AbleFantasticItaliangreyhound

      That's a 4k HP Ship... WITH full shields... Dead in literally a couple of seconds.

      And here's the kicker. There's absolutely no outplay unless you have teammates around.

      @Typhoon - It's alright, a staple in many Brotherhood Compositions because of its reliability, but nothing too crazy. The ultimate still has outplay potential, comparatively versus the Black Widow

      @Luminary - Legit never see anyone in T4 playing this Ship.
      @Medium Cruiser Line - Meh
      @Overlord - No Opinion

      To add on to Ninja's list:
      - Chaplain
      - Messiah(?): If we're going to talk about Black Widow's 1-shotting people. Let's talk about Messiah's preventing that literally all the time. Good Messiah's carry games.
      - Interceptor/Exterminator: Have you seen it's Broadsides???

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Valinor ().

    • Yeah I also feel Chaplain is a bit "up", but I don't own it so I cannot really say anything for sure. I will definitely say that it's way too durable for what it is, but still not insanely unbalanced.
      Messiah has always been bs, double Messiah is auto-win at the moment :/ But I am not even sure how to balance it better, that's why it's not in the list.
      Interceptor yeah I have seen it, the annoying guns are the bow, broadside are fine. Just jump next to it and murder it, it has very very low hp, that's the weakness - kill it before it kills you. (I got 1.5m exp on that ship, I really know it)

      About that Black Widow... Yes, that is my build, exactly the same I do with it, that's why I call bs on it. No way to counter that.
      Before the ratings got destroyed, this was a nice meme

    • sorry for bad english.....
      In my opinion i agree that bw so op....cant be countered right now.....but i dont really care about it as long as i can buy it with gold and exp....and about VW, in my opinion VW isnt op...the healer ship behind VW is the real op....nerf the reduce incoming damage buff....and please separate party and solo statistics.....thx and sorry before
    • Ninja wrote:

      Because VW is a ship that requires a pretty good awareness to play, even after a million experience points on it I still learn something every once in a while, and it's my 2nd most played ship after Interceptor... Btw, to kill VW, kill the healer and slow it down, earlier I killed both Messiah and VW guy from BSa in a row in one occasion, and still lost the battle -_- (talk about frustrating teammates). Thing is any ship can do great with an healer, some better, some worse - VW is one of the best for sure, along with Typhoon/Skid/Overlord.
      I 10000% agree

      Problem with VW is that its not serving the described role - its not slowly-building DPS anti-battleship vessel, its RAPIDMELTEVERYTHING with certain modules/buffs - so either its role need to be changed or ship re-worked.





      True af, but i guess they designed it for a thing, and players turned it to an other thing lol
    • New

      To first post - I think that Gladiator now - a kind of "tester healers." That is, if the heal falls from Gladiator's procast, this is a bad heal. If the heal is gradually squeezed by the Gladiator, this is the average heal. And if heal from Gladiator does not fall at all - it's a good heal.
      Ninja was measured, weighed, and was recognized ... as an average healer (joke)
    • New

      Yeah, Ymunhane had issues in controlling his ship (VW) for how fast it was, it's definitely very far from being balanced. The points could be given to both Messiah players not to put any of them at a big disadvantage score-wise, but the effect must NOT stack.
      Before the ratings got destroyed, this was a nice meme